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Sick and tired of bugs in SW

Sick and tired of bugs in SW

Sick and tired of bugs in SW

(OP)
Having over 22 years of design on 5 different CAD systems under my belt I am getting sick and tired of bugs in SW.

The latest - just opened a dwg that was previously saved a couple of months ago under SW 2004.

Now one of the views is totally messed up. Neither CTRL-Q, nor rebuilt helps.

RE: Sick and tired of bugs in SW

(OP)
Not only the view of the whole machine is messed up - the LAYERs on othe views are gone. That is, the LAYERS exist in the layer bar, but they are gone from the dwg.

And this is not first time I see this kind of behaviour.

The SW DWG is total mess.

RE: Sick and tired of bugs in SW

I have over 30 years of design on 7 different CAD systems under my belt & so far SW is the best. I have to admit that I have not used SW05 yet though.
If you have a specific problem, list all the relevant details here & other forum members will try to help.
If you want to bitch & complain ... call SolidWorks or your VAR.

RE: Sick and tired of bugs in SW

Just because you can't bring it back doesn't make it a bug. Contact your VAR, maybe something has changed in SW05 (Not a bug) and SW has a fix for it.

Try opening it on another machine... maybe it's your machine.

I have a customer right now that can't open a STEP file, but I am able to open it without question?

I found the problem. The problem was a corrupt Template. So the problem wasn't SW but rather a bad template. Things like that happen. So before you say it's a bug get it checked out with your VAR.

Regards,

Scott Baugh, CSWP
3DVision Technologies

http://www.3dvisiontech.com
http://www.scottjbaugh.com

FAQ731-376
FAQ559-716 - SW Fora Users

RE: Sick and tired of bugs in SW

I agree there are bugs, but far from other CAD systems I have worked on ... especially Bravo & ACAD. SolidWorks support is far superior than the others also, IMO.

RE: Sick and tired of bugs in SW

(OP)
Nothing against you, nice guys, I REEEEEALLY appreciate all your help ....

Just venting my frustration - what's the use of re-designed, "cool", "sexy" icons in SW 2005 ?? They should have spent their time on fixing the bugs - not on "sexy" icons.

The crop view is all ...... - up, the LAYERS are gone, so are the line thicknesses and style - instead PHANTOM layer, line PHANTOM, hicknes LIGHT, I get everything on layer none with everything standard.

On another dwg, when I tried to put dims between edge and hole on BROKEN view, the dims went heywire - I sent this to VAR, admitted it was a bug ....

RE: Sick and tired of bugs in SW

I would have to suggest a testing period before upgrading all E-Data to a new release.  This would shed some light on known bugs or qurks in the software that do not fall in line with what's accpetable to you design process.  I use to work for the Dept. of Transportation in CAD Development and we put in countless hours of beta testing and debugging.  It's my opinion to error on the conservative side before migrating E-data to the next release.  I know it's hard to resist because the marking folks certainly do a good job on hyping the enhancements before the new release.  Anyway, just some thoughts and I do understand your frustrations.

Best Regards,

Heckler

"Never underestimate the power of very stupid people in large groups" John Kenneth Galbraith

RE: Sick and tired of bugs in SW

At risk of starting a "Rant" thread...

IMO Solidworks is the best 3D CAD package out there for combined ease of use, functionality and $$$.  Use it, love it, wouldn't change it for anything else yada, yada yada.  

HOWEVER - it seems that all the improvements on new releases (or at least the ones we hear about) are geared towards being "sexy" rather than addressing some core concerns with stability and performance.  Personally I don't care WHAT the icons look like if it means the program is going to crash only once a week instead of once every 2 days.

I recall being at last years SW world and during one of the presentations a list of the top 10 most frequent complaints about Solidworks from the very first edition of Solidworks was compared to a list of the top 10 complaints about Solidworks 2003.  Something like 7 of the complaints were the same, things like "improve stability" and "improve large assembly performance".  And what did they talk about in the preview of Solidworks 2005?  Things like being able to project out an ISO view and the power-trim option in sketches.

Maybe that's just the nature of the software business - as you add functionality the program gets more complex so it becomes more and more difficult to keep it stable and fast.  

Rant concluded.

RE: Sick and tired of bugs in SW

(OP)
It's not just crashes and bugs per se ...

How do I explain to my boss the fact that the older printed dwg he has in his office is O.K., but the dwg I printed right now, without any changes, is fouled up ??

RE: Sick and tired of bugs in SW

Hi:

Comment only:

Typical behavior - something good is finally created, then it succeeds and everyone is ecstatic that it finally exists, then it gets improved and promptly screwed up.

They did that to my favorite database program, at start rock hard simplicity and reliability (exactly what a database needs) - now in release 8.0 magnificant capability, it will do anything and everything -- but I wouldn't trust it with my data.

However, nothing said against solid and sustainable progress - only against incidental and gratuitous egomania.

Hopefully SW Corporation will re-assign its hotshot software developers routinely to their sales team to prevent them from wreaking their ambitions on a (probably) good product (or maybe a 6 month stint is enough to shrink their ego back to normal).

RE: Sick and tired of bugs in SW

I love it.

I've found some quirks in 05 concerning some of the more cutting edge sweeps or other features that were--let's say--not quite stable in previous releases.  I would almost expect that since I've pushed SW in the past with so many work-arounds to get something it perhaps was not quite made to do.

For instance, I built the horn on my web site in SW 2003.  If I perform a Ctrl-Q rebuilt, it crashes my main handle sweep.  Bummer.  Lots of guide curves and elliptical tangency for the profile--asking for some trouble in that feature anyway.  I can rebuild it slightly differently in SW 2005 if I really want to, or I can let it be.  If I need to return to that project, I'll rebuild it, but for now it's safely archived on a separate hard drive and on CDs.

With progress comes growing pains.  The sweep feature has been strengthened in later versions, so I won't complain that my older sweep failed in this instance.  All future sweeps will have the capacity of greater fortitude and options of greater complexity.

Jeff Mowry
Industrial Designhaus, LLC
http://www.industrialdesignhaus.com

RE: Sick and tired of bugs in SW

Its sort of goofy and I think bad practice, for one version of a software to rebuild a model or drawing differently from another version of software.

Basically, it means you really can't trust the software as you upgrade if loft and sweeps change from version to version. It would be different if SW actually said in their product manual that upgrading will change your parts or files.

RE: Sick and tired of bugs in SW

One more thing jack I prefer to say.
Our company make some models in sw to use them in some FEM fields, for example we made an engine block model which growed up exponentially in size up to 180 MB just for a part model !!!
It's wonderful that this model has a rebuild time about 21 minutes on a powerful workstation, and now consider that if sw regenerate this model with too many errors periodically , what should I tell to my boss ?!
It has errors or not ? Really I dont know !
We had same type of errors before on many models, one regenerated with errors on a machine and with no errors on another ! one regenerated with errors on a user login and with no errors on another user login and ...
Now in drawings , oooooof ... We have some big drawings about 200~250 MB , you have to praise the god if sw open one drawing correctly next time you've saved it, and so on you know better than me.
But I don't know with these huge number of bugs , why they don't have enough attention to fix them and just release the newer versions.
Best regards.

RE: Sick and tired of bugs in SW

You could build a part in SW03 and there could be a bug in your process and on top of that the part should fail but it allows you to proceed. Whne you bring it into the next version SW it fails. Is that bug? Would you know if it was or wasn't if I had not set up this scenario for you?

Heckler - Join the Beta testing team. Get on Early Visibilty for SP's. If you want it tested then you can partcipate in the testing yourself. Then you can have first hand knowledge of what's going on. If you choose not to (IMHO) then don't complain. That is what the Beta testing is there for. I think if you search this type of thread up. This was discusses extensievly already when SW05 came out in beta.

Regards,

Scott Baugh, CSWP
3DVision Technologies

http://www.3dvisiontech.com
http://www.scottjbaugh.com

FAQ731-376
FAQ559-716 - SW Fora Users

RE: Sick and tired of bugs in SW

Scott
Wouldn't it be considered a bug if the part should have failed but didn't?

RE: Sick and tired of bugs in SW

Scott - not complaining....just adding my two cents worth.  I did do beta testing for the 2004 release.  The point I was trying to make and I'm sure you see this more than I do.  Is that some companies (I use that not pointing at anyone) just release a new revision to their user pool without doing testing themselves.  They do not put together a road map to see how this new release will affect productivity....I'm sure we have all experienced this since we use windows.  All the variables have to be assigned "risk" so not to be caught dead in the water in the middle of a product development cycle....and since time to market is critical this could kill a project.  That's the point I'm trying to make.  I did this type of development work for a road way design software package with great sucess because we followed strict guidelines.

Best Regards,

Heckler

"Never underestimate the power of very stupid people in large groups" John Kenneth Galbraith

RE: Sick and tired of bugs in SW

IMO - the beta testing will never reveal all, or even most, of the problems with Solidworks or any other software because they tell you straight off in the beta testing to not use beta software on production parts.  

Most of us don't have the luxury of spending 1 to 2 weeks working on a 3000 part assembly (like we would for production use) if that assembly might meet an untimely end.  Also - the software sometimes changes so dramatically between the beta and the full release that it's difficult to be sure that what DID work in the beta will still work in the full.

The ONLY way to truly iron out the bugs is to use the software in production, which is why some places only update every 2 or more releases, and why in general it's not a good idea to update until at least the first SP comes out.

But, getting back on topic...

Documents changing between releases is unfortunately a fact of life as the software improves so we all just have to live with it and hope that eventually the program will one day be "good enough" and no more improvements are needed.  

RE: Sick and tired of bugs in SW

I have read so many posts of people being unhappy with 2005, some have gotten to be downright rude about it.  I really haven't been able to see where most of it is coming from, personaly.  We, as a company, are just getting started with SolidWorks, so I realize that maybe I'm just not yet pushing the software hard enough to find the same problems.  Yes I run into little bugs and quirks here and there, but nothing that's keeping me from doing my work.  Also, I find 2005 just as easy to use as it was 8 years ago.

I first learned on SolidWorks 96, worked with it up untill 2001 Plus, then I was let go from the company I worked for.  I was away from SW for about 2.5 years, and have recently been able to convince the new company I work for, to switch to 3D design.  I've jumped right back into this game, whithout having to fight it much, to me that says something for the software.  I know I'm kind of getting off topic here, so I'll quit with this.  Try going back to Autocad for a couple of years, I bet you'll be begging to have SolidWorks and it's quirks, back on your desktop.


Later
Chris

RE: Sick and tired of bugs in SW

True.  I used to use a T-square and triangles when I started.  Then ACAD.  Now SW.  Guess my favorite.

I really don't think we can say the SW people are a bunch of slackers when they have the best option.  The more complex the software, the greater the likelihood of some glitches.  (The same goes for any high-performance product.  How does a top-fuel dragster engine compare with the engine of a Ford Taurus?  Come on!)

Jeff Mowry
Industrial Designhaus, LLC
http://www.industrialdesignhaus.com

RE: Sick and tired of bugs in SW

I agree with cninneman. I personaly would quit this profession rather than go back to ACAD. I like Pro-E, UG and Catia, but SW is the best bang for the buck. Sure there are bugs like every software, but the more experience you get, the more effecient the software will run ... less crashes. IMO

RE: Sick and tired of bugs in SW

I choose to differ from Scott B on one point. We are not paid to beta test SW $oftware. We pay for the software and are paid by our company to use it. Crashes and bugs and things that wont' work are worth complaining about. It hurts our job performance. SW doesn't pay us to test software. Our companies pay us to get the job done. Any CAD package either helps or hinders than purpose.

I am satisfied with the SW2005 0.1 release. It has been much more stable than SW2004. I like the flexibility it gives and the new features. It is getting better.


RE: Sick and tired of bugs in SW

I'm not paid to do it either. But has ehlped in raises and promotion for going beyond my duty.

RE: Sick and tired of bugs in SW

Heckler,

I didn't mean my reply in a negative way, just wanted to make sure you understand that it is tested. But thanks for the clarification!



engAlright,

Why did the beta release of SW05 find over 3000 bugs and SW fixed them all. Do you really want that many bugs in your released Software? I think not. I think the Beta Program paid off because this release of SW is the best so far, for a SP0.0 and .1 SP.

If you have a standalone seat of SW at work, you can take that same seat home and use the software at home. If you have time to fiddle around with it, that's great. It's better then nothing at all.

I think the Software is already "Good enough". It has it's problems, but there isn't much you can do about that. It's was created by "Man" and you know what happens when "Man creates something. I will eventually break.

There will always be improvements because the new Enhancements are from users like yourself. You can almost always count on Improvements.

Regards,

Scott Baugh, CSWP
3DVision Technologies

http://www.3dvisiontech.com
http://www.scottjbaugh.com

FAQ731-376
FAQ559-716 - SW Fora Users

RE: Sick and tired of bugs in SW

Solidworks, is a tool, nothing more. That said, its a complex tool with a lot of hidden "features" and ways of doing things. After using AutoCad and its solid modeling and moving to SW I greatly prefer SW for modeling. For 2D its still inferior to ACad. Solidworks is an excellant time saver.

However, what makes the software potentially dangerous is the way that it can reinterpret your design from version to version. That is not good practice. Supposedly the way lofts are done can change from version to version.

Now my point is this, what happens in the future when CAD models become the standard reference for a part?  How can any sort of trust be had between the software model and what should be manufactured?

For archival purposes, what would be needed to be saved on a optical disc?  The 3d model as well as the specific software package and sp necessary to recreate it?

And Scott, how do you define a bug in a user's process?

RE: Sick and tired of bugs in SW

I've gotta say it's gotten hot and heavy on this topic at times.  Not to flame this talk even further however we're seeing good number of instabilities in SW05.  More so than anyone in our group has seen collectively since we started using SW back in 97-98 it would seem (save perhaps for SW01+ over the first few SPs IMO).

Unfortunately if we choose to upgrade early and/or without a clear plan (perhaps also even when things are planned carefully even) then I personally think that it's virtually inevitable that people will experience the proverbial "bumps in the road."  Having said that, it's probably a good idea to mention archiving SW databases to preserve data before upgrades (I think it's actually recommended by SW if I recall correctly anyhow).  Obviously in some cases that's prohibitive but giving some forethought does seem warranted to prevent/minimize headaches.

All in all SW has some work to do in order to alleviate some of the colorful language emanating from our department since we upgraded to SW05.  For the record, despite the collective dischord the guys I work with are generally very satisfied with SW otherwise.

Speaking for me I can do more today with SW than I could even a year ago (and the year before that, etc.) and I expect it will continue that way for the foreseeable future.  No doubt in my mind it is a good package.  And while I too perceive some of the "sexy" fluff that they've been trying to sell me for years to be superfluous there are useful, productive and functional upgrades which have been incorporated into every new release that have made my life easier (Sheet Metal, Surfacing, Sweeping, etc.).

Yeah, it sucks when a "bug" hoses all or part of something we've worked on for many hours but I do know from experience that our VAR and SW tech support have bent over backwards to straighten out problems with/for us.  Get on them and let know what your problem is.  In the end it does serve the larger interests of the entire SW community oftentimes.

Chris Gervais
Sr. Mechanical Designer
Lytron Corp.

RE: Sick and tired of bugs in SW

ewh,

Missed your post earlier.

Yes it would be considered. But what if this wasn't ever caught. The user would not think of something workign as being a bug. Would you? I wouldn't... but there might be a similiar issue that is repaired or maybe some else did point this out and turned it in. So in the next release the part fails. You immediately assume it's a bug. When in fact it's not.

I can't say often this happens, but it's another way of thinking about it before acting on "IT"S BUG!!!" HELP!!! - You get the idea.

Best Regards,


sirmick,

How do you mean? Define a bug in a user's process?

The user must give me a list of steps andm aybe files to reproduce the issue at my station. If I can reproduce then I have Legitimate issue I can turn into SW. I add the steps provided by the user and any other information that I tried to do to get around the issus, unless it's just plainly obvious.

Best Regards,

Everyone
There are going to be all users that think differently. Some think like "Cryo1"

Quote (Cory1):

We are not paid to beta test SW $oftware. We pay for the software and are paid by our company to use it. Crashes and bugs and things that wont' work are worth complaining about. It hurts our job performance. SW doesn't pay us to test software. Our companies pay us to get the job done. Any CAD package either helps or hinders than purpose.

and there are others the feel like ctopher

Quote (ctopher):

I'm not paid to do it either. But has ehlped in raises and promotion for going beyond my duty.

I feel that ctopher's post is showing the love for the use the software. He want's to get the best product for his money and is willing to help SW make it better. Since after all that is way the product is out there. To make the customer as happy as possible. I feel the same way and now that I am on the inside a little bit. I feel like I might make a differenece. then again maybe i won't but I know I'm passionate about this software and I have been for years (since 95-96.)

FYI - Below is meant in General and it is not pointed at any particular person or group. Cryo1 I used your quote as an example.

But you have the choice not to join the beta testing and that's fine. But don't expect perfect software, because it's software. I don't expect perfection, but I do have expectations every year for the software and only once have I seen a bad release. Since then they have made up for it. If you want to complain about bugs find go to comp.cad.solidworks and complain all day. If you want help then come here and we will help to the best of all our abilities.

Beat Regards,

Scott Baugh, CSWP
3DVision Technologies

http://www.3dvisiontech.com
http://www.scottjbaugh.com

FAQ731-376
FAQ559-716 - SW Fora Users

RE: Sick and tired of bugs in SW

SW kicks but...have to say it...sorry guys....I have been contracted to design several different exhaust manifolds to be cast....Inventor, no good....Pro-E, hit a brick wall.....SW ripped the projects in half the time, and was able implement no geometric comprimise at all...
I had SW crash three times in a mater of an hour, now i know what not to ask of it, but got the job done much quicker that the other packages.
Don't mind the bugs, because they will eventualy iron them out. Having said that Inventor does have a more comfortable drawing system.

Conclusion: i must go do some fishing soon, or i will just explode.  

RE: Sick and tired of bugs in SW

Scott, you are correct ... thanks

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