4 layers VS 2 layers PCB cost AND carbon printing ?
4 layers VS 2 layers PCB cost AND carbon printing ?
(OP)
Hi,
Question #1:
I'm currently using a 2 layers board for my prototype. Obviously, the design would be much cleaner if I'd be using 4 layers. However, having a seprate ground and power plane for a 6 inches sqr PCB is what I beleive to be luxury.
Nevertheless, how much more should I expect to pay for a 4 layers vs a 2 layers ? I used to work with boards that had 16 layers and what we found is that there was a 20% cost increase per added layer. However, this rule of thumb applies for a multiplayer board. Would passing from a 2 layers to a multilayers (4) process the same price increase (I doubt it).
I've seen sometimes 100 to 200% increase from 2 to 4 lyrs but these were for protos qtys. The volume involved here are more in the 500 to ++ thousands range. I'm using 8 mils traces, 29R15 vias so nothing too fancy.
Question #2
anyone has experience with a good PCB supplier which can do carbon printing ?
Thanks all.
Question #1:
I'm currently using a 2 layers board for my prototype. Obviously, the design would be much cleaner if I'd be using 4 layers. However, having a seprate ground and power plane for a 6 inches sqr PCB is what I beleive to be luxury.
Nevertheless, how much more should I expect to pay for a 4 layers vs a 2 layers ? I used to work with boards that had 16 layers and what we found is that there was a 20% cost increase per added layer. However, this rule of thumb applies for a multiplayer board. Would passing from a 2 layers to a multilayers (4) process the same price increase (I doubt it).
I've seen sometimes 100 to 200% increase from 2 to 4 lyrs but these were for protos qtys. The volume involved here are more in the 500 to ++ thousands range. I'm using 8 mils traces, 29R15 vias so nothing too fancy.
Question #2
anyone has experience with a good PCB supplier which can do carbon printing ?
Thanks all.





RE: 4 layers VS 2 layers PCB cost AND carbon printing ?
RE: 4 layers VS 2 layers PCB cost AND carbon printing ?
Thanks buzzp.
BTW, anyone knows of a good PCB fab that does carbon printing for PCB traces (used for keypads) ? I found some in Asia but any good in USA or Canada ?
RE: 4 layers VS 2 layers PCB cost AND carbon printing ?
( no"") and you will find a BUNCH...
Is is necessary to use 4L ? 2 is cheaper and if it is good enough, why to pay more? You may be more careful with the design, do more manual routings etc.
<nbucska@pcperipherals DOT com> subj: eng-tips
read FAQ240-1032
RE: 4 layers VS 2 layers PCB cost AND carbon printing ?
RE: 4 layers VS 2 layers PCB cost AND carbon printing ?
a .15-.2 inch wide metal strip with pins at every .5 to 1 inch. It may be much cheaper to add one of this to the GND than an extra layer. ( I don't know its name.)
<nbucska@pcperipherals DOT com> subj: eng-tips
read FAQ240-1032
RE: 4 layers VS 2 layers PCB cost AND carbon printing ?
perhaps you are thinking of something like Mektron bus-strip.
rswww.com part number 435-715.
RE: 4 layers VS 2 layers PCB cost AND carbon printing ?
<nbucska@pcperipherals DOT com> subj: eng-tips
read FAQ240-1032
RE: 4 layers VS 2 layers PCB cost AND carbon printing ?
Many designs are driven to mutilayer because they simply can't be routed on two layers.
RE: 4 layers VS 2 layers PCB cost AND carbon printing ?
I will finally stick with a 2 layers PCB. I have managed to add some GND and VCC copper pours which will do the job compensating (as far as trace inductance goes) for the missing planes...
However, I've shopped around and found that some Asian cies do offer 4 layers at about 50% more (compared to 2 lyrs) which is not too bad when your board cost around 2 $. Besides, tooling cost is even the same ?!
Anyways, even 58% on a 2$ PCB is too expensive for high volume prods.
Thanks all for your comments/feedbacks.
RE: 4 layers VS 2 layers PCB cost AND carbon printing ?
RE: 4 layers VS 2 layers PCB cost AND carbon printing ?
I'm telling you, either we go in Asia or we may be forced to go out of business it's that simple. For those who will say that you don't get much quality from Asian products, think again. Most of them are ISO9001-2000 and are putting much effort into improving this side of their business. It is becoming veeeery scary ! Well, I would have to say much on this but this is not the place to discuss this. But again you're right, many of the asian people are exploited and this is bad. Until our governments do something about it what can we do ...
Regards
RE: 4 layers VS 2 layers PCB cost AND carbon printing ?
Good luck to you.
RE: 4 layers VS 2 layers PCB cost AND carbon printing ?
ISO9001 and its cousins ensure that a company defines a procedure and that the procedure is followed. Ergo, if a company writes a procedure for making useless crap and follows that procedure so it churns out useless crap of a consistent repeatable standard, it can wear the ISO9001 badge. It is no guarantee.
I've worked in companies where the ISO9000 system - BS5750 as it was in the early days - was implemented to a high standard and we got tremendous benefit from it once it was up and running. I presently work in one where the implementation is awful, creating a bloated paperchase which brings little or no improvement in quality, while slowing progress to the speed of molasses running over a cold rock. As with most things, a quality system is only as good as those who implement it.
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If we learn from our mistakes,
I'm getting a great education!
RE: 4 layers VS 2 layers PCB cost AND carbon printing ?
Don't get me wrong, I have worked for cies that were ISO9001 and the new one 9001-2000 (besides having been audited many times for these standards, which is BTW a pain in the... ) and ISO DOES NOT define a quality standard as such BUT at least you can audit your ISO customers and see if what they do is according to your quality standards. If not, you just go elsewhere.
My point was, asia business in the past was not so good quality wise but things are changing as more N. American cies go do business over there. So Asia is not to rule out anymore and must definitely be considered.
Thanks for your comments.