Another BritEng question--group nouns plural or singular?
Another BritEng question--group nouns plural or singular?
(OP)
I know that Over Here (US) we'd say "the committee is", treating the committee as one thing, and Over There (UK) you might say "the committee are", treating the committee as many people.
What about something like the ABC Agency or the XYZ Ministry? Are those singular or plural?
Hg
What about something like the ABC Agency or the XYZ Ministry? Are those singular or plural?
Hg





RE: Another BritEng question--group nouns plural or singular?
jimbo
Buy a dictionary, keep it nearby and USE it. Webster's New World Dictionary of American English is recommended, and Webster's Collegiate Dictionary.
RE: Another BritEng question--group nouns plural or singular?
Jeff
RE: Another BritEng question--group nouns plural or singular?
[Insert Organisation Name here] are planning to ...
should ALWAYS read:
[Insert Company Name here] is planning to ...
It is an easy trap to fall into - when you think of an organisation, you tend to think of the many people that make up that organisation; hence, the tendency to say "we are ...". However, an organisation is a single entity; therefore, "the organisation is ..."
RE: Another BritEng question--group nouns plural or singular?
RE: Another BritEng question--group nouns plural or singular?
For example, the BCC announcers, and even the Americans on CCN International which bugs me even more, say "Liverpool play Manchester United." Not quite as bad to me as fingernails on a chalk board, but close!
In the States they would say "Chicago plays New York" or else "The Cubs play the Mets" but never "Chicago play New York."
RE: Another BritEng question--group nouns plural or singular?
I am 100% clear in my own mind that these organisations are singular and should be treated as such.
In UK, we don't seem to be very good at this, which is why it's the single most frequent error I find when asked to proof-read a report. Interested to learn that US engineers get it right when we don't.
But you're right about the police.... Saying "The police is looking into it" just doesn't sound right - and I don't believe it sounds good to the American ear either - or am I wrong?
Maybe it's the exception to the rule, and the word "police" is shorthand for "members of the constabulary".
John
RE: Another BritEng question--group nouns plural or singular?
That's a weird one, because we use "police" like "policemen", except that you'd never say "there are two police standing over there".
But you're saying that "Manchester are winning" is actually NOT correct UKish? Wow. I'd heard it so much I thought it was just a different rule over there.
Hg
RE: Another BritEng question--group nouns plural or singular?
Think I may need to don my flak jacket around about now...
Bung
Life is non-linear...
RE: Another BritEng question--group nouns plural or singular?
http://shakespeare.about.com/library/faqs/blfaqssp...
On the other hand, I'm reasonably sure that it was trendy lefty commo pinky new-age education types who allowed Latin to diverge into French, Spanish, Italian, etc.
Hg
RE: Another BritEng question--group nouns plural or singular?
I don't recall ever saying standardised spelling or grammar was "relatively modern", just that is necessary. And standards can and do change. Even must change. In 1947, less than 60 years ago the word "transistor" did not exist, so could not have had a "standard" spelling or appear in any dictionary. And we all know that if a word is not in Oxford / Brewster /Macquarie (select dictionary of choce) it is not a real word!
Bung
Life is non-linear...
RE: Another BritEng question--group nouns plural or singular?
Likewise "Manchester United (footballers) are playing Liverpool (footballers)". Manchester and Liverpol are adjectives describing the footballers.
Jeff
RE: Another BritEng question--group nouns plural or singular?
When the FA announces the draws between football teams, I believe they say, as they pull the slips of paper from the hat:
" .... and Manchester United ..... (pregnant pause) ..... plays Liverpool".
Or am I mistaken? It's just possible that even the Brits get it right occasionally, even by accident.
John
RE: Another BritEng question--group nouns plural or singular?
Home team selector: "Number 34"
FA Official: (looks up number on table) "Manchester United. Will play..." or "Manchester United. Will be at home to..."
Away team selector: "Number 29"
FA Official: "Liverpool." (followed by some comment or statistic about performances in previous rounds of the cup or that "Player X used to play for team Y which should make for an interesting tie" etc etc
"Will play" is of course the same whether the teams are considered as singular or plural. Unfortunately this doesn't really advance the argument further.
M
--
Dr Michael F Platten
RE: Another BritEng question--group nouns plural or singular?
But I am fair dinkum about the police example. "Police" is an adjective, eg. "police force" "police car" "police station".
When used as "the police arrived too late", "police" is an adjective with an understood noun.
Jeff
RE: Another BritEng question--group nouns plural or singular?
Police ARE known to be a group of law enforcement officers. (note political correctness)
The police force IS a law enforcement body.
Manchester United IS learning to play Aussie Rules football.
Manchester United players ARE learning to play Aussie Rules football.
RE: Another BritEng question--group nouns plural or singular?
M U players learning Aussie footy? And mess up their hairdos?
No they isn't.
RE: Another BritEng question--group nouns plural or singular?
Any thoughts?
StephenA
RE: Another BritEng question--group nouns plural or singular?
I think the Brits and Colonials should abandon all the "the-s" to make life easier. The next step is to convince the Germans to drop their "der, die, das-es".
What next? Maybe common language like standardised Latin? Wouldn't that be nice?
Unified Language for Unified World! At least with Latin nobody would feel left out.
Putting Human Factor Back in Engineering
RE: Another BritEng question--group nouns plural or singular?
Besides, it appears that Marks & Spencer, the United States, the United Nations, politics, economics, Chase Manhattan, etc., all are it and take a singular verb, don't they ?
Any comment ?
RE: Another BritEng question--group nouns plural or singular?
Maybe these forms are customary depending on the common use?
Putting Human Factor Back in Engineering
RE: Another BritEng question--group nouns plural or singular?
"the army are above the average civilian height"
That's terrible, you just can't say that. The verb must agree with the noun, but in this case it wouldn't make sense even then.
"the army is above the average civilian height"
Perhaps a bad example, you might get away with
"The army are very kind to their captives",
but it is easier and better to do it right:
"The army is very kind to its captives"
...But no one will believe you.
Jeff
RE: Another BritEng question--group nouns plural or singular?
Putting Human Factor Back in Engineering
RE: Another BritEng question--group nouns plural or singular?
I pressume you are right when the phrase is read out of context and as a stand-alone expression. However, it seems the mentioned example would be correct when referring to the constituents.
Another example by the same style book under the heading of collective nouns:
The council are at sixes and sevens over rates.
Could these be considered metonymies, in the sense that one term refers to a wider -related- idea ?
Being a Spanish speaker trying to express myself in correct English, I sincerely hope The Economist conforms "comme il faut" with accepted standards.