Professionalism
Professionalism
(OP)
I just started a new job here and one of my goals is to be proffesional in all aspect, whether it is design task, communication, attitude, etc. can you guys shed some light on this.
APH
APH
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RE: Professionalism
RE: Professionalism
Don't let minor personal frustrations with the company or managers influence the quality of your work, the respectfulness of your communication, or your general demeanor around the water cooler. And if you have personal objections you need to report... communicate them PRIVATELY to people who matter and you know you can trust. That's my best advice.
ChemE, M.E. EIT
"The only constant in life is change." -Bruce Lee
RE: Professionalism
Back to presentation...One thing to monitor in addition to business wardrobe, firm handshake, and general etiquette would be your oral and written communication skills. If you don't think you could describe yourself as highly articulate (not all engineers can), consider taking some classes in both public speaking and technical writing. Keep in mind, too, that you will need different attitudes and bearings in different situations. How you act (and dress) in the office may need to be different from how you will act if you have to go to a plant or jobsite.
Hg
RE: Professionalism
Use the tools you have available to your advantage, such as Outlook Calendar to schedule meetings.
During working hours, work. Save the chit-chat and jokes for breaks and lunch.
Don't let your personal life interfere with your corporate life (to a reasonable degree).
Dress the part (as mentioned), leave the jeans and t-shirts at home.
Just some pointers. To me when I hear "be professional" I take it as co-workers are looking to me as a role model, and upper management is looking for me to set a good example. You can be professional without compromising your ethics, morals, back-stabing or brown-nosing.
"But what... is it good for?"
Engineer at the Advanced Computing Systems Division of IBM, 1968, commenting on the microchip.
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?
RE: Professionalism
Remember attitude is 85% of your success.
Skill and education can be learned.
Start reading good self help books, always have a book to read everyday, for at least 20 minutes. Breaks are good for this. Authors such as Bob Pike, Zig Ziglar, Jim Henning, Nido Qubein, Harvey Mackay and Patricia Fripp are always good starts.
Smile.
Shut up.
Speak up.
Treat others as they would want you to treat them.
Remember, you are being watched...every day all day... don't do anything stupid.
RE: Professionalism
Actually it's a pretty good illustration of starting out doing everything exactly right till you feel out the territory and find out where the lines are (or what you can usually get away with). When I finished school, I went out and bought a very large bag of Clothing That Is Not Jeans Or T-Shirts, and that's what I wore here for months. Now I drag that stuff out if I'm headed anywhere other than my isolated little office.
Hg
RE: Professionalism
ChemE, M.E. EIT
"The only constant in life is change." -Bruce Lee
RE: Professionalism
Don't let personal frustrations influence the content of your work. Any communication, written or verbal, should focus on the technical issues at hand and your engineering assessment of them, not your feelings about them.
RE: Professionalism
By the way, I'm still listening...
Thanks
APH
RE: Professionalism
The Human Side of Enterprise by Douglas McGregor. When you are a theory "Y" person you are a professional.
RE: Professionalism
RE: Professionalism
Coka
RE: Professionalism
What does this have to do with professionalism?, depends on you desires, cause in the end it doesn't matter what they think, it's if you are satisfied with your own performance.
RE: Professionalism
It is at least a two-dimensional parameter ('sandals vs. shoes' along one side, and 'flaming wrecks vs. design perfection' along the other). I believe that the latter axis is slightly more important that the former axis (keyword 'slightly'). But both are important.
RE: Professionalism
The difference is that on the latter "axis" there's no question whatsoever where one should operate, hence no point of discussing it. At least I hope to the divine aspect of your choice that no engineer is sitting there debating, "Hmmm...first day new job...should I do all the calcs? No one ever told me in school whether I should do that or just pull numbers out of my butt and make the widget look pretty..."
(Actually it's on the job where one learns the situations under which one actually *can* pull numbers out of one's butt, as said butt gains knowledge and experience, but that's probably another topic for another time.)
Hg
RE: Professionalism
Ah yes... They shouldn't exist, and yet they do! ('They' being those that occupy the 'Nice Shoes' but 'Incompetent' corner of the graph.) I'm sure that we've all met them.
My point is to remind us that the 'optics' of professionalism should be kept in perspective to what's even more important.
I just thought that it stood out like a sore thumb that no one had mentioned it since the top of the thread.
It's a point worthy of, at least, a mention (as a point of universal agreement, not argument).
RE: Professionalism
The "nice shoes but incompetent" contingent isn't that way because they thought, "Hmm, where should I be on the competence continuum? Competent? Incompetent? Gosh, incompetent sure sounds neato." No one chooses to be an idiot, and it's those who don't know they're idiots that are the most dangerous.
On the other hand, shoes and attitude are always a choice, and there are many possible acceptable ways to go. This is a thread about those matters that *are* up in the air, not those that go without saying.
Raising the point you raise won't give any useful information to anyone who isn't an incompetent idiot (and by raising it you imply that maybe someone here is one, which is part of why my hackles are up), and unfortunately it wouldn't set any incompetent idiots on the path to righteousness either because the biggest problem with incompetent idiots is that they don't know they're incompetent idiots, so they never recognize themselves in such words of warning. So you've accomplished nothing (other than keeping me moderately entertained on a slow morning).
It's kind of like if someone posted asking for driving directions from New York to LA and you give a lecture on proper use of turn signals. Irrelevant and condescending.
Hg
RE: Professionalism
Competence includes being careful (avoiding or catching the inevitable mistakes). Being careful IS a matter of free will. One example: consciously keeping your confidence level somewhere just below your competence level. Another example might to avoid jumping to conclusions about what you think you read (ahem...). It's an overall approach.
In other words, competence is partly an attitude and it is a critical part of 'professionalism'. Just because it is 'motherhood', I'm still entitled to mention it without anyone taking it personally.
Perhaps you could read my postings with a more open mind and try not look for insults. None were intended and (even after a careful review) I find that none exist.
Have a nice day.
RE: Professionalism
I also see it unprofessional to call someone "straw man" for no reason. I saw VE1BLL posting a valid opinion; the offensive response seem to be subject to guilt?
But that's just me, and being prefessional allows others to be others. So APH let's have that as a lesson on how not to react.
RE: Professionalism
Cheers.
RE: Professionalism
I think VE1BLL's specifics (such as "consciously keeping your confidence level somewhere just below your competence level") are excellent. The generic of "make sure you actually do competent engineering" and the implication that none of us think of such things is what I took issue with.
Regarding choice of clothing, obviously your mileage will vary. From workplace to workplace, and situation to situation. Within any environment there will still be a range, and some people will be on one end and some on the other. I'm not the only T-shirt and sandal wearer here, but I admit we are at the tail end of acceptability (and I still get a hell of a lot more respect than the last several (better-dressed) guys to hold my job). On the other hand, jeans and sneakers are pretty standard in this office (even my boss wears jeans and sneakers unless he has a meeting to go to), and someone wearing a necktie in my position would be looked at very strangely indeed. Someplace else I might be wearing a jacket to work every day to do the same kind of job. It really does depend not just on individual personality but on circumstance.
Okay, I'm bored today but not *that* bored, so I think I'll shut up for a while now.
Hg
RE: Professionalism
So environment plays a huge role when trying to define "professionalism".
Has this discussion strayed from professionalism to competence?
"But what... is it good for?"
Engineer at the Advanced Computing Systems Division of IBM, 1968, commenting on the microchip.
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?
RE: Professionalism
We're brawling over whether one is part of the other or another thing entirely.
Hg
RE: Professionalism
Gosh, you bait easily...
RE: Professionalism
Swing your partner, swing your corner, do si do and away we go!
Hg
RE: Professionalism
RE: Professionalism
An unprofessional way to die!
RE: Professionalism
APH
RE: Professionalism
"But what... is it good for?"
Engineer at the Advanced Computing Systems Division of IBM, 1968, commenting on the microchip.
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?
RE: Professionalism
Go Mechanical Engineering
Tobalcane
RE: Professionalism
I was reviewing a document with the definition of a binary word, but the various bit patterns were listed in essentially random order (not following any logical sequence - no reason for it). The author of the document had obviously assumed that they were sufficiently gifted (competent) that they wouldn't make any errors and therefore had no need to be more careful.
I was suspicious, and so I cut-and-paste the entire list into MS-Excel and then sorted it into simple binary order (for review purposes). It immediately became obvious that there were errors, duplications, and omissions - just as I suspected there would be.
The above is just an example of how assuming that you're human and capable of making mistakes, can lead to a more careful approach that can eliminate such errors at the outset.
As related to this thread, I'd rather deal with someone that 'wears sandals' and instinctively lists the bit patterns in a logical order, than deal with someone 'with nice shoes' that doesn't understand that such an approach increases the risk of errors.
Thankfully, this more careful approach can be learned.
Unfortunately, it is often learned the hard way.
RE: Professionalism
http://www.bcee.concordia.ca/programs/BLDG481/letm... (looks like a reprint of the New Yorker article though NY isn't mentioned)
and here:
http://onlineethics.org/moral/lemessurier/
I've heard it debated whether he wasted potentially precious days pondering what to do, and whether the "spin" put on the repairs in the interest of not causing panic could be considered lying, but all in all here's a case of a guy blowing the whistle on himself and coming out smelling of roses. Hell, after he came to talk to my school, I wanted to work for the him (he seems like my kind of smartass bastard, and I really do mean that in a good way).
That's a case of combining both the competence and the presentation aspects of professionalism--the competence to understand the problem and fix it, and the savvy to handle it in such a way as to create nothing but positive impressions all the way.
He was probably wearing a tie.
RE: Professionalism
Sorry folks, I don't give a rip how good an engineer you are....wearing sandals to work is unprofessional...period.
The way you dress indiciates the way you percieve yourself; and if you want to be seen as professional, I suggest you act and look like it.
RE: Professionalism
Go Mechanical Engineering
Tobalcane
RE: Professionalism
RE: Professionalism
Speaking of women's wear, sandals in the office seem to be much more acceptable if they're little strappy numbers with a medium heel, pantyhose (possibly optional), and a dress (and a socially acceptable chromosome set to match). Somehow toes aren't so controversial when there's a whole lot more flesh on view to accompany them. Never seemed logical to me.
Generally, though, dressing like the boss, or just slightly down from the boss (we have a pretty clear tie/no tie dividing line here, drawn just above first-level managers), is pretty good guidance.
Hg
RE: Professionalism
RE: Professionalism
Listen to others otherwise they won't listen to you
Think before you put your foot in it
Try to be logical and considerate
Be approachable. If you are too stern, people will be afraid to talk to you. That leads to frustration.
Learn to communicate clearly and explain exactly what you want and expect.
Try not to ask others to do what you can't (sometimes though thats the reason why you employ them)
give praise when its due...dont over do it as insincerity is not a good thing
Don't reprimand anybody in public.
Don't call people, thats not very professional.(decline to comment..that will win more respect)
Don't be afraid to give your opinion but make sure that your argumant is well thought through first.
Learn to argue and negotiate properly...there is a great skill to this.
If you are really keen, get a few books out on management and sales skills. They can be 90% Bull s$*t but the 10% is really worth it.
And don't forget, your boss won't live forever.
Friar Tuck of Sherwood
RE: Professionalism
I can't agree more on this point too. I used to have a manager that would always yell at people right in front of others, and would also argue with his superiors in front of everyone. Not professional at all.
A few years ago I had to travel to NY to visit a packaging vendor. I could not believe how he treated his shop workers. He would yell at the top of his voice, degrading his men, calling them every name and racial slurr in the book. Then he would instruct them to go stand in the corner to get out of the way until they got "straight in the head". After seeing this scene more than 5 times in only a single week, we decided we didn't what to do business with the company.
"But what... is it good for?"
Engineer at the Advanced Computing Systems Division of IBM, 1968, commenting on the microchip.
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?
RE: Professionalism
Thanks and regards
Sayee Prasad R CEng MWeldI MIOMMM
If it moves, train it...if it doesn't move, calibrate it...if it isn't written down, it never happened!
RE: Professionalism
RE: Professionalism
Another version of that is not so much berating subordinates, but tearing down everyone else. A manager in another section where I work is known for "dissing" everyone except the people who report to him. As a result people avoid seeking out his input even when they really should consult with him, and although I'm sure he thinks that tearing down everyone else makes his group look better by comparison, the truth is that even his boss knows it's a problem.
Hg
RE: Professionalism
Some regard being on-time as an ethical issue. This is among ethical points for contemplation. Things happen beyond your control, especially in large city traffic. Other things that you can control. In any event, sometime you will be late. With cell phones, etc. you should let others know if practical. Driving like a fool and putting lives in danger is not professional and not ethical.
John
RE: Professionalism
Observing timings is as important as your attire, even more than attire, in my personal opinion. I do not really care whether it is part of ethics or professionalism though.
Regards.
RE: Professionalism
APH
RE: Professionalism
Here's a no-win situation:
If you don't work overtime, you're not giving the 110% you should be giving. But if you do work overtime, that's a symptom of poor time management. Thoughts?
Hg
RE: Professionalism
A Program Manager is someone who thinks that, given nine women, he can make a baby in one month.
RE: Professionalism