Stuctural fees vrs. Civil fees.
Stuctural fees vrs. Civil fees.
(OP)
Hey here's a question sure to stir the pot.
Why is it that Civil Engineers can demand higher fees for less liability when compared to Structural Engineers? Why can't Structural Engineers charge fees comparable to higher Civil rates?
From what I can tell Structural Engineers are more compromising bunch, willing to undercut the competition by a few dollars to get a job. Structurals also seem to have less loayaty from clients who are willing to "shop around" for a cheaper fee. Is this a phenomenon in my local area or is it more widespread?
Why is it that Civil Engineers can demand higher fees for less liability when compared to Structural Engineers? Why can't Structural Engineers charge fees comparable to higher Civil rates?
From what I can tell Structural Engineers are more compromising bunch, willing to undercut the competition by a few dollars to get a job. Structurals also seem to have less loayaty from clients who are willing to "shop around" for a cheaper fee. Is this a phenomenon in my local area or is it more widespread?






RE: Stuctural fees vrs. Civil fees.
RE: Stuctural fees vrs. Civil fees.
If there is a standard, then you can only demand a higher fee if the client feels that it is worth paying extra. That usually means, the client gets some savings, or get to use your name as a designer for marketing purpose, or the client feels safer in your structure, or etc.
So, what is the implication that strucural engineers can not demand a higher fee?
RE: Stuctural fees vrs. Civil fees.
RE: Stuctural fees vrs. Civil fees.
RE: Stuctural fees vrs. Civil fees.
RE: Stuctural fees vrs. Civil fees.
The explanation I figured is that clients(developers) are more particular with things they can actually see, like aestetics. They dont really understand the importance of a good strucutural design, they feel that one structural plan is just as good as another.
RE: Stuctural fees vrs. Civil fees.
Now here's a question:
In my area of the world, here is something that has always left me a little perplexed. If a developer wants to develop 100 acres of land, for a 4 model single family residential tract, he pays the Civil Engineer based on total land area being developed. Now on the other hand, the Structural Engineer gets paid for the design of the 4 houses one time, regardless of how many times the Developer builds those houses on that tract. Is that typical for areas you live in? It doesn't make sense to get paid for 4 structures yet take the liability for 400. In my market the same is true for apartments and condos. No wonder we can't make the kind of money the Civils do.
RE: Stuctural fees vrs. Civil fees.
Engineers seem to forget that it takes time to do the job properly. They are willing to take shortcuts and guess. In addition, we do not have a very high opinion of the value of our "profession" to the community.
Perhaps engineers should enrol in the course where lawyers are taught to respect their profession and not to prostitute it by cutting corners and underestimating its worth.
RE: Stuctural fees vrs. Civil fees.
Regarding PJD's question in the 2nd post, in my experience, if the client wanted to use the same design of the structure (houses or condos, etc.) to build more than one. It would depend on negotiations between the designer and the client, how many you would allow it to be built, and how much extra you should get for each extra no. of building constructed. It is, however, as we all know, there are always some engineers who would be willing to get paid as for the design of one building, regardless how many are to be built. I dont quite remember whether or not the ethical issues say anything about this. Sorry.
RE: Stuctural fees vrs. Civil fees.
the best way to change things is to "GET INVOLVED". In many cases, contractors get involved in changing the building codes to allow "less" structure to be put into buildings, mainly single family residences. When disaster strikes and the buildings (houses) fall down (hurricane Andrew in FL comes to mind) everybody wants to make the building code more strict. I'm afraid that even after the codes are rewritten after a disaster, contractors will find a way of amending the code to suit a cheaper way of building a structure(house). Structural engineers should say "I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore" and get involved in changing the building codes--espically residential--and require that ALL drawings be reviewed and sealed prior to construction. This should include buildings of any size, period.
RE: Stuctural fees vrs. Civil fees.
RE: Stuctural fees vrs. Civil fees.
We have an Engineer in our our office who spent alot of time in North Caolina. He says that on multi-bldg. projects they whould get 40-60% of the original fee after the first one.
The problem here is that there are alot of engineers working out of their garage who drive the prices down so badly that we are left groveling for projects with low fees. The standard has been set by these small operations and if you aren't competitive with the lowest bids you end up with nothing.
RE: Stuctural fees vrs. Civil fees.