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"NFG"

"NFG"

(OP)
I saw an instrument audit list done by our technicians and few instruments were mrked as "NFG". What does it mean?

RE: "NFG"

I know that when I review designs and mark up drawings I use NFG to indicate "NO F---ING GOOD".  Could this be the answer?

Cheers,
CanuckMiner

RE: "NFG"

2
I used to NFG for that as well, but was asked to stop.  So now I use CFC for complete f---ing crap.

RE: "NFG"

I know FNG, but not NFG.  Maybe it stands for "Not For Gauging"?

Ray Reynolds
"Computers in the future may weigh no more than 1.5 tons."
Popular Mechanics, forecasting the relentless march of science, 1949
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

RE: "NFG"

NFG is well understood in Australia to tag equipment that is unreliable or doesn't work.

RE: "NFG"

Perhaps you will find the answer if you RTFM?

RE: "NFG"

In the gentler times of my youth, the expression was "NBG" for "no bloody good"

Jeff

RE: "NFG"


For a similar purpose, we Brits have always used the acronym 'US' or 'U/S' for equipment that doesn't do what it should. It's a military acronym, I think.

This has caused great confusion and some mirth (occasionally upset) when dealing with American colleagues on international projects. They perceive that anything that's NFG has a 'US' label on it and they think we're taking a pop at American quality.

US means unserviceable.

Cheers - John

RE: "NFG"

Julian Hardy's RTFM post reminded me of a visit from the retiring CEO of a UK Company a couple of years back and the topic of exporting part assemblies with manuals was discussed.
He solemnly stated:
"The Germans they will follow the manual exactly and if the manual doesn't match the assembly exactly they will send it back to you.
The British will read the manual after they have commenced assembly.
The French will throw the manual away and write their own."

RE: "NFG"

Canadian military also uses US as unservicable.



Rick Kitson MBA P.Eng

Construction Project Management
From conception to completion
www.kitsonengineering.com

RE: "NFG"

Why RTFM?

The following story comes from the July 2004 edition of “Composites Fabrication” journal (www.cfmagazine.org). I can’t vouch for its authenticity (it smells a bit like an Urban Myth to me), but it contains a salutary lesson on why we should all “RTFM”.

In a small restaurant/casino outside Nevada a man stopped after breakfast to play a little Keno game where winning depends upon picking a combination of some or all of the winning numbers drawn in each game. This guy was lucky; after a time he won a small amount, perhaps $50. He went on his way, but he kept thinking all day about his luck. As a result, the next morning he came back, had breakfast, and played a bit more Keno. At first he lost, but soon he won a bit, and then he got on a roll and won a lot. He left a happy man.

The next morning the player was back, but on this day he won again and again. He was seriously cutting into the margins of this small casino. He played until casino security came and stopped him. Security escorted him to the casino office, where they interrogated him. Although they could not determine how, they were convinced that he was cheating. They confiscated his winnings. Not surprisingly, the player was not content with this decision. He took the casino to court.

In court the judge insisted that the player explain how he won so consistently. He confided that after a short time on the second day he realised that the winning numbers were repeating, producing the same numbers at almost exactly the same time every day!

Armed with this understanding, the casino immediately claimed that there had been a malfunction of the machine. If this were the case, all of the player’s winnings would be void. Thus, the lawyers called in the company who made the machine and their programmer. The programmer immediately asked, "Did you read the manual?” Well, the manual was over 300 pages, and written in obscure computerese. However, indeed, there on page 192, in bold letters was the caution:

DO NOT TURN OFF THE MACHINE AT NIGHT.

This is not an obvious caution, but the manual explained that if the machine were turned off the seed (starting) number used in the random number generator would be reset. The algorithm produced results based on the time since the machine was started. Unfortunately, to save energy the casino was not only turning off the machine at night but also turning it back on at the same time every morning. Thus, an observant player could discover that the Keno game produced the same winning numbers at the same time every day, and that additionally, the winning numbers from game to game repeated in the same order every day!

There was no malfunction. The judge ruled in the player’s favour; the source of his winnings was casino error.

RE: "NFG"

Lots of urban legends about casinos:http://www.snopes.com/luck/casino.htm

This particular one smacks of gross implausibility, since it's trivial to "seed" a random number generator to avoid the problem inferred.


TTFN

RE: "NFG"

MintJulep
You'll have to consider reverting to NFG because CFC's are banned.

RE: "NFG"

it's trivial to "seed" a random number generator to avoid the problem inferred

You're actually "seeding" a pseudorandom number.  The digits you get are usually based on some sort of arithmetic calculation involving the seed (nth digit of the remainder after dividing, etc).  It used to be fairly common to use "timer" as a seed for the random number, since it would practically guarantee that you get a different seed every time.

As a young (10yo) boy I enjoyed programming my own computer games.  I discovered at one point that if I set the computer up to pick and display a "random" number immediately upon booting, that it would always display the same number.  I don't recall whether it would have repeated the exact same sequence of "random" numbers, but I believe that it would have.  I was, of course, using "timer" as my random number seed, and the bootup time using DOS was very consistent.

If the machine used a single "seed" for all its random numbers, then the problem described above could potentially occur, since the same seed might be selected upon bootup, which would lead to a repeatable sequence of numbers being generated.  If you always came in for the 10th drawing, you'd always want to pick the same digits.  

RE: "NFG"

Twenty years ago when I worked as a pipefitter in a shipyard, "NFG" was used to mean "no f___ing good."  One day, I thought we had a whole batch of valves that were NFG, until an expediter determined that the blueprint showed the valve being installed with the proper direction of flow reversed.  Once installed correctly, they were no longer NFG.

RE: "NFG"

Thr problem of seeding random number generators has been solved for over 40 years.  If you look at most random number generators used in software packages today, the default is a random seed and you actually have to go out of your way to force it to repeat sequences.

As I indicated, the plausibility of something like this happening is very remote, since you obviously do have times when the machine is turned off.  Therefore, you would not design the random number generator to generate the identical sequence from powerup.

This story has all the hallmarks of an urban legend, where some lucky soul figures out a way to bet the all-powerful opponent through a stupid error on the part of the opponent.


TTFN

RE: "NFG"

Along the lines of NFG and RTFM, my favorite military standard is MIL-TFP-41, which translates into Make it Like the F---ing Print For Once.

RE: "NFG"

Thr problem of seeding random number generators has been solved for over 40 years.

Interesting comment... ever tried it yourself?   I wonder why there would be so much discussion of the topic in the last 3 decades if it was put to rest 40 years ago?  Why weak random number generation is STILL one of the common weak points of cryptography?  Better call them all up and tell them how to fix it.

A discussion of seeding PRNGs:
http://www.lavarand.com/faq/prng.html

A discussion of some recent PRNG problems, followed by some suggestions about how to come up with "good" seeds:
http://ora-tcpip.h1.ru/puis/ch23_08.htm

Here's a discussion of the precise problem I faced as a little kid: http://66.70.194.202/Chapter05.htm

RE: "NFG"

The DES and a slot machine are hardly comparable.  

A slot machine that repeats a pattern every couple of months is essentially bulletproof.  An encryption program that does the same is DOA.  


TTFN

RE: "NFG"

so it's not an inconceivable scenario that a programmer in the gambling division of an electonic games company would use a really weak random number generation scheme, then try to CYA by recommending that the machines be left on all the time?

before you answer, see
http://www.cigital.com/news/index.php?pg=art&artid=21

To make matters worse, the algorithm chose the seed for the random number generator using the Pascal function Randomize(). The Randomize() function chose a seed based on the number of milliseconds since midnight.


another twist on the same story referenced in earlier thread:
http://www.keno-info.com/beating_keno.html

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